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Last Post by David Salsedo 3 months ago
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 Juan Herrera
(@juan-herrera)
Posts: 174
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Topic starter
 

 

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Need some help with this tracking test. So Here are the results of a plumb line at 100yds ranged at 100yds with sig kilo 3000 from top of turret.  So it’s all labeled. So my understanding is 10 mils up should be 36”  and the meopta is with in 1/16 of an inch  cause it measured 36-1/16 “

and the 308 with the crimson trace scope measured 36-15/16” so almost an 1” higher than what it should be. Seems like a lot Also there was some cant on the crimson trace to the right at 10 mils but I double checked when I got back and put the flash light on it with a level line and a laser plumb line and its right on with a level on the action etc etc. So does that mean the erector May be canted?  Question is what is the correction factor for both of these?

From what I have researched expected elevation 36” divided by actual on target group travel 

meopta optika6 36”/36.0625=0.998266897746967

crimson trace 5 series 36”/36.9375=0.901408450704225

So are those numbers put in the scope correction factor?

seen a lot of videos and just plane lost and confused and ignorant to this. Got a match coming up on the 25th really wanted to shoot the 308 cause I have more loaded ammo for it but that crimson trace scope seems way off. Also I was shooting off a bench so that may affect some right drift but not sure.

let me know what yall think or recommend please. 👍

 

The pictures never go up in order but they are labeled so it should be clear what’s what

 
Posted : 03/15/2023 1:26 PM
 Roy Pool
(@roypool)
Posts: 4
Member
 

Mr Herrera.

You have all the info. In your ballistic app under elevation adjustment factor type in the first 4-5 numbers I'll use your meopta as an example 0.99826 depending on the app it might use more numbers. I hope this helps Roy

 

 
Posted : 03/15/2023 2:09 PM
Juan Herrera reacted
 Taylor Bokshowan
(@taylorbok)
Posts: 553
Member
 

yes correction factor goes into calculator.

If your reticle is 100% plumb and you were holding rifle 100% plumb then the scope doesn't track perfectly vertical.

 
Posted : 03/15/2023 4:37 PM
 Juan Herrera
(@juan-herrera)
Posts: 174
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Topic starter
 

@taylorbok ok that’s what I figured but wasn’t sure. The 15/16 is a lot I think especially when the meopta is within 1/16. And this crimson trace was already sent in for the parallax coming undone some how and spinning with no detent. Im gunna give crimson a shout and see what they say it’s supposedly the top of the line series 5 made in Japan. $$$ thanks 

 
Posted : 03/15/2023 5:07 PM
 Taylor Bokshowan
(@taylorbok)
Posts: 553
Member
 

@juan-herrera ya that is a fair amount. I will point out that ur math is off in the above calc also

36”/36.9375= 0.97462

 
Posted : 03/15/2023 5:25 PM
David Salsedo reacted
 Daniel Boyd
(@db7)
Posts: 56
Member
 

@juan-herrera Was ur target line plumb when set up?  
If the target line was slightly canted you would get a false cant. It looks as if both scopes had the same cant, makes me think the target line was not plumb when set up. Possibly? 

Taylor corrected ur math on the crimson, basically a 3% error which would be about 1 click(.25 mil) at 1000 maybe 2 clicks if your ballistics are on the slower side. My NF NXS has a 3% error MOA and its 1 click at 500 & 2 clicks at 1000.  Now if ur stretching to a mile it becomes really significant.  If u have The kestral Elite, it has the upgraded firmware to add a SSF for scope correction, it works very well.  I believe their several ballistic calculators that do as well.   When u add the correction factor cross check it when it changes the values(Mils) to make sure they are correct.  Say ur hold is 5.77 mils, then with correction it should be 5.62 mil. 

One other thing to note: Rangefinders can be off and have error. I believe Jason mentioned to me about it in a discussion, use a 300 ft tape and measure from target to the elevation turret. Try not to let tape sag. This will give u a more exact reading for adjustments. 

Are u shooting PRS?   

 
Posted : 03/15/2023 11:21 PM
 Juan Herrera
(@juan-herrera)
Posts: 174
Member
Topic starter
 

@db7 plumb line drawn with 4 ft level after card board was attached and checked again before removing because I suspected it may have moved but it did not.   If you look at the 7-08 groups at the bottom minus the cold bore shot that I labeled they are pretty much the same distance away from the line where the 308 is right on at the bottom but about 1” to the right at the top

there is no way I could pull a tape measure there is so much snow here and I shoot by myself

 

 Club in Rexburg does long range steel targets all from prone. 800yds up to 1200 plus . They change it  up some and or reticle ranged only or caliber/ bullet bore specific etc they call them tactical matches very fun but extremely challenging for me. There is a couple guys that sometime clean it though good shooters very disciplined and with very expensive set ups though.

 

im gunna attach that crimson in a vise and see if I can see that can’t while I turn the turret. Been thinking about it all day how to do that.

 

 
Posted : 03/16/2023 12:44 AM
Daniel Boyd reacted
 Juan Herrera
(@juan-herrera)
Posts: 174
Member
Topic starter
 

@taylorbok hey thanks for correcting me

somewhere I punched the wrong number. 🤦‍♂️

 

 
Posted : 03/16/2023 12:47 AM
 Daniel Boyd
(@db7)
Posts: 56
Member
 

@juan-herrera ya they looked like they were the same distance away from the line. As far as the 3% tracking error, more vertical.  If your ballistics program doesnt allow you to enter the SSF, just multiply your MIL dope at each yardage by .974...  That will give you the corrected.

The corrections will probably be on 1 click .25 Mil @ 800 and 2 clicks .5 mil at 1200.   

If your like me, reading the wind will affect you more than the clicks. 😉 

Good luck with your match

 
Posted : 03/16/2023 1:20 AM
David Salsedo reacted
 David Salsedo
(@david-salsedo)
Posts: 57
Member
 

Yes,

correction is 2.6% under not 15/16 at all ranges. 
multiply what your dope calls for by .974

Example 5 mill would correct to 4.87

Capeesh!?

 
Posted : 03/16/2023 10:50 AM
 Juan Herrera
(@juan-herrera)
Posts: 174
Member
Topic starter
 

@david-salsedo hey thanks man had an aha moment there 5x.974= 4.87.

Do you think the  error is too much 15/16 at 100yds ?

So due to the cant that may be erector misalignment in that crimson scope and this error I pulled the scope off and I put on another I will also test and track and hopefully it’s GTG. I was very impressed by the Meopta though cause it cost less iv done better with those 

 
Posted : 03/16/2023 11:44 AM
David Salsedo reacted
 Dick Hedges
(@hedgehog)
Posts: 25
Member
 

If you use a kestrel you can plug in the correction factor to true your ballistic calculator to your scope. however your scope does appear to have over 1 degree of cant which can cause windage issues at range and cause a small vertical error as it is not tracking vertical. example .5" off plumbline with 10mils i.e. 35.99" would be .5/35.99x100= 1.39 degrees of error. We check this on the guns of our junior's program every 6months and tracking and its amazing how often it needs correcting.  

As for measurement we take an engineer square draw a line back to  the plumbline, from the top of the highest edge of the highest impact and the lowest edge of the lowest split the difference of the two and that is our measurement. We use the same method for measuring distance from plumbline for cant.

I hope this helps. Ill take a picture of last weeks practice, we conducted a tale target test and post it. 

This post was modified 3 months ago by Dick Hedges
 
Posted : 03/16/2023 12:11 PM
Juan Herrera reacted
 Dick Hedges
(@hedgehog)
Posts: 25
Member
 

Attachment : 16790026947645695908092240002623.jpg
 
Posted : 03/16/2023 4:39 PM
 Juan Herrera
(@juan-herrera)
Posts: 174
Member
Topic starter
 

@hedgehog ok so I thought 36” was 10mils at 100yds. I see you wrote 37”.

Is it supposed to be 37” then? 

I also took a framing square to get center for my groups that’s the C line in my pics. 

 
Posted : 03/16/2023 7:52 PM
 tadeloach22
(@tadeloach22)
Posts: 172
Trent DeLoach
 

@juan-herrera I would think it is 36 since .1 mil is .36".... Or close to that anyway

 
Posted : 03/16/2023 7:53 PM
Dick Hedges reacted
 Dick Hedges
(@hedgehog)
Posts: 25
Member
 
  1. @juan-herrera it's actually 35.99" I was at 101.1 which you multiple by .03599 which gives you the 36.39. The scope actually moved the group 37". You divide the mil conversion by the actual movement. 36.39÷37= .9834 giving you your correction factor.
  2. Sorry the picture was a little confusing.
 
Posted : 03/16/2023 7:59 PM
 Juan Herrera
(@juan-herrera)
Posts: 174
Member
Topic starter
 

 

Attachment : IMG_0637.MOV

Ok so finally figured out how to see the erector cant and show it easily with the flashlight and laser level. although it’s more like a shift.

This took a while. this could be a way to at least show manufacturers when there is an issue so the reticle shifted right from point of view through the scope although on the grid paper it shifts left towards laser line so my group went like it shows on paper to the right. Will contact crimson and show what I found. I imagine they will fix or replace. 

 

 

 
Posted : 03/17/2023 2:18 AM
 Dick Hedges
(@hedgehog)
Posts: 25
Member
 

@juan-herrera If you are only turning the elevation turret and the rifle / scope is not moving horizontally from you turning the turret, I would say yes. In the scope manufactures I have submitted RMA's to i.e. Leupold, Vortex, Kahles and even Arken. Its a simple This scope has a tracking issue it does x, y, z verified by tall target test and none of them have pushed back with refusing to fix the problem. 

Juan I hope this helps, and I would verify scope tracking at least every 6 months.

 
Posted : 03/17/2023 6:19 AM
David Salsedo reacted
 David Salsedo
(@david-salsedo)
Posts: 57
Member
 

@juan-herrera 

cant is tricky. To test the erector you’ll need to remove from rifle and put in a vice that is perfectly level and flat. 
depending on if you’re MOA or Mil you’ll want to test the erector with plummet or plumb bob and surveyors rod or your version of same and have at it working your elevation and windage adjustments with a return to point. You should do this with every scope regardless of reputation or cost if shooting at distance is your passion. Just a not on is 15/16 okay. Having a 2.6% error factor in your scope adjustments is fine if its absolutely consistent and you keep your own DOPE. 😉

 
Posted : 03/17/2023 9:14 AM
 David Salsedo
(@david-salsedo)
Posts: 57
Member
 

@juan-herrera 

1 Mil is always 1/1000th of any unit of measure at any distance. Miles, Meters, inches or millimeters. 

 
Posted : 03/17/2023 9:25 AM
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